The Zeitgeist Movie has taken up the task of comparing Christianity to the pagan mystery religions. The movie attempts to prove Christianity is just another myth, like these mystery religions, through comparing alleged similarities between these religions and Christianity. There is much work to be done on demonstrating the problems with these comparisons. I will begin with a quick look at a couple of the alleged similarities between Christianity and the pagan mystery religions stories. I am going to focus on the virgin birth, sacrificial death, and resurrection stories of four of the mystery religions (which I covered a little bit in previous posts).
Virgin Birth Stories:
Adonis: born from a myrrh-tree, the bark of which burst after ten months’ gestation, allowing the infant to come forth.
Osiris: the offspring of an affair between the earth god Seb (Keb or Geb, as the name is sometimes transliterated) and the sky-goddess Nut
Mithras: born out of a rock on the banks of a river under a sacred fig-tree, came forth clenching a dagger in one hand and a torch in the other hand; which he used to illumine the depths from which he came
Dionysus: Zeus, in the form of a serpent, visited Persephone and she bore him Zagreus, that is, Dionysus, a horned infant
Sacrificial Death Stories:
Adonis: Ares takes on the likeness of a boar in order to attack Adonis, Adonis is torn to pieces by the wild boar while hunting
Osiris: his brother, Set (or Seth), coaxed Osiris into a coffin, which he soldered shut with lead
– Osiris was then set adrift in the Nile to die
– later was found by his sister, Isis, who brought him back with her
– when Set discovered Osiris’ body, he chopped Osiris up into 14 pieces and spread him out all over the land
Mithras:– the sacrifice was a bull who contained all the “germs” of life, there is no recorded death of Mithras
Dionysus: the Titans attacked him while he gazed at himself in a mirror, he took on many shapes to evade attackers, he was cut to pieces by the murderous knives of his enemies while in the form of a bull
Resurrection Stories:
Adonis: after his death, Adonis was raised to the underworld for half of every year and to the upper world for half of every year
– He was supposedly given to Persephone, the goddess of death, for part of the year, and to Aphrodite, the goddess of love, for part of the year
– this representation of Adonis residing with death for part of the year and with love and fertility part of the year coincides with the seasons and crop cycles
Osiris: pieced back together and revived by the power of several gods, revival entailed rites which the Egyptians perform over the bodies of the departed, reigned as king over the dead in the other world
Mithras: no clear resurrection story, ascends to heaven in the sun’s chariot
Dionysus: his mother pieced together his mangled limbs and made him young again
– or shortly after his burial he rose from the dead and ascended up to heaven (only possible similarity..but nothing said of bodily resurrection)
– or that Zeus raised him up as he lay mortally wounded
– or that Zeus swallowed the heart of Dionysus and then begat him afresh by Semele
– or his heart was pounded up and given in a potion to Semele, who thereby conceived him
– so many stories, which one is the correct one?
The alleged similarities here are strained. These stories are not the same as the Biblical stories of Jesus’ birth by the virgin Mary, Jesus’ willing sacrifice to deal with sin and death for all mankind, and Jesus’ triumphant bodily resurrection as the “first born” of the resurrected. Of course, it may be argued that I am taking the stories at face value. But what I am showing is that a person needs to examine these similarities for what they are, which is really not that similar. Jesus birth by a virgin does not equal Adonis’ birth from a myrrh tree or Mithras’ birth from a rock.
But the arguments for the alleged similarities get much more problematic. In my next post(s), I will look at the following in more detail: the alleged similarities do not pre-date Christianity (who is influencing who), the argument ignores basic Christian history and doctrine (Christianity does not claim Christ was born on the 25th of December), the argument is not substantiated by a consensus of scholarship (a checks and balances system on ideas), the alleged similarities lack historical evidence, all reports about Jesus’ death and resurrection infer a dated experience concerning a historical person, and none of the pagan mystery religions attempt to undergird the stories of their rising gods with historical evidence.
MJ
References:Carnoy, Albert J. “Iranian Mythology,” Volume Six, Mythology of All Races. New York, Marshall Jones Company: 1917.
Parrinder, Geoffrey. Ed. The Illustrated Who’s Who in Mythology. New York, MacMillan Publishing Company: 1985.
Puhvel, Jaan. Comparative Mythology. Baltimore, Johns Hopkins University Press: 1987.
Willis, Roy. Ed. “Persian Myths.” World Mythology. Richmond Hill, Duncan Baird Publishers: 1993.
Weston, Jessie. From Ritual to Romance. Chapter IV: Tammuz and Adonis. Available from: http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/frr/frr07.htm#fn_39texts.com/neu/frr/frr07.htm#fn_39. The Internet Sacred Text Archive. Accessed May 22, 2007.
Yamauchi, Edwin M. Easter: Myth, Hallucination, or History. Available from: http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/yama.html. Accessed January 22, 2007.
Habermas, Gary. Mike Licona. The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus. Grand Rapids, Kregel Publications: 2004. pg. 90.
Frazer, Sir James George. The Golden Bough. Available from: http://www.bartleby.com/196/79.html. Accessed May 22, 2007.
McDowell, Josh. “Is The New Testament Filled With Myths”. Chapter 14 of A Reasoned Defense. Available from: http://www.greatcom.org/resources/areadydefense/ch14/default.htm. Accessed January 22, 2007.
Metzger, Bruce. “Methodology in the Study of Mystery Religions and Early Christianity.” From Historical and Literary Studies:, Jewish, Pagan, and Christian. Available from http://www.frontline-apologetics.com/mystery_religions_early_christianity.htm. accessed January 22, 2007
© Mary Jo Sharp 2007
MJ, I’m glad you’re writing about this. It needs more press.
~dale
Regardless of whether or not one can find “who comes first” there are still interesting “coincidences,” such as the position of the sun at important Christian dates, and all of the things involving “age.”
These things seem much more indicative of a new interpretation of certain Christian beliefs.
I think it is important for us to understand “who comes first.” The movie infers Christianity’s doctrines and texts are borrowed from earlier religions.
What is important here is the actual evidence involved with making the claims. Where can I go look and see the particular hieroglyphics or documents for all of these claims? How substantial is that evidence? With Christianity, there are numerous manuscripts to check, (some of which I saw at the Smithsonian display of the earliest Biblical manuscripts in Fall 2006)plus the stories are undergirded with historical events, places, and people.
MJ
Well, that’s true, though of the 5000+ manuscripts not one of them is the exact same, so there are discrepancies, though usually minor.
Once again, regardless of who came first, I can look into the sky and have real, unquestionable proof of where the sun, moon, and stars are. How can the coincidences of astronomical phenomena and Christian “mythology” (3 day death, resurrection, coming of the age, Jesus’ fish symbolism, ten commandments and the bull, the cross of the zodiac, etc) be ignored?
I’ve been doing a lot of personal research as to the who came first questions, but the parallels to astronomy/astrology are much more interesting.
Steven,
I am interested as to what these similarities mean to you. Can you tell me more?
Thanks a bunch,
MJ
It says to me that many important Christian ideas could have been pulled straight out of the sky (literally!) and that perhaps the entire IDEA of religion is based on astronomical bodies and their movement.
It is proven that there were religions before Christianity. These religions stemmed from, as far as I can tell, mythology involving astronomical bodies. If Christianity has the same relations to astronomy as the others, what makes it more valid as a religion (religion, not way of life)?
Something like this can show that the Bible is just as much mythology as everything else. It can force people to find a REAL spiritual connection!
Steven: just b/c some things have similar characteristics does not necessarily imply that they are equal. Both criminals and innocent people breathe air, brush their teeth, and believe that the world is round. But surely no one would want to say that just b/c innocent people are similar to criminals in some ways – that for that reason they are criminals! Just a thought …
Thought this was very appropriate considering the post….
2 Timothy 4
“1In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: 2Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.”
Roger
Hi, am a new blogger and have created a blog that I collect all christian blogs and creat links on it. What I really do is, I promote all christian blogs by creating a link with a one paragraph discreption about the blog. If you are interested you can visit the blog at http://www.christiansitelinks.blogspot.com and drop you disrciption there. If you know many sites that promote christianity I would recommend to let me know.
Yourse in Christ!
Christians, some of the blindest people on earth. Christianity, the most popular STORY ever told. Christ, scholar who found a great story, and told it. “They must find it difficult… Those who have taken authority as the truth, Rather than truth as the authority.” -Gerald Massey
Melvin, you have given an opinion, but you have a lot of proving to do through arguments and evidence. And I do not think Christianity’s story to be popular. The Scripture actually says, “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” Plus, Jesus’ words here do not seem prescriptive, but rather descriptive of humanity.
“Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried.”
– Gilbert K. Chesterton
Thanks,
MJ
Hi, this is all well and interesting to me. I am an instructor in theology and I have students asking about this video, Zeitgeist. I appreciate what you have done, MJ, but I am as concerned with your response as I am with the Zeitgeist cronies.
You list a bunch of quotes without offering citations. Only at the end of your post do you offer secondary sources. This is bad intellectualism and is should not be confused with scholarship or apologetics. I agree with you that this is about chronology and sources. You are on your way to offering evidence, but you have not done so *yet*.
Point us to the original sources so we can check for ourselves, and then we can talk about evidence and arguments.
Cheers!
S.Koffer
S.Koffer@yahoo.com
S.Koffer,
Your comments are intriguing, because you suggest my writing entails bad intellectualism. I very much disagree with you, because:
1) About not including citations: I did not utilize quotes, thus there are no footnotes. If you look at other works of mine, you will notice frequent use of footnoting when material is directly quoted or when the specific intellecutal property of a particular person is utilized.
2) The published, peer-reviewed work of scholars in their field of study is good, quality material, even if it is a secondary source (especially when dealing with pagan myths where much material is derived from paintings, sculptures, pottery, and inscriptions, as well as writings). The sources I have given also provide the primary sources and can be easily looked up with a bit of effort.
And I have a bit of a problem with this expectation. There are possibly thousands upon thousands of “primary source documents” and “primary source material” for this subject (anthropology). To source everything would be like asking me for everything written, drawn, sculpted, and inscribed by every pagan culture in history. This is what dissertations are made of, and why we need to utilize quality scholarship. It is okay to be critical of the scholarship, but there is no need to say it is not valid because it is a secondary source.
3) I am a bit confused as to why you are ‘as concerned with my reply’ as you are with Zeitgeist. I have researched Zeitgeist’s sources and if you were to look up their sources, you would see the major difference in the scholarship utilized.
4) You teach theology and I’m guessing you use peer-reviewed, credentialed scholarship, including textbooks and Bible commentaries for your classes. Those are also secondary sources, yet still very useful and important works.
Yes, it would be good for me to provide the actual ancient documents. In this case, considering the amount of source documents, it is a more efficient use of time to use collections, commentaries, and reference books in which the source material can be found in the bibliography.
Some sources from “The Mythic Image,” by Joseph Campbell:
“Jagadambika” (“Hymn to the Mother of the World”) Devibhagavata Purana 29.5. Translation by Arthur and Ellen Avalon, Hymns to the Goddess . London: Luzac and Co., 1913.
The Book of the Dead, Papyrus of Nebseni, translation by E.A.W. Budge, The Chapters of the Coming Forth by Day. London: Kegan Pual, Trench, Trubner and Co., 1898.
Mythological Papyri, trans. Piankoff, I, 149, Payprus No.17.
Vishnu Purana
Bhagavata Purana
Bhagavad Gita
Theogony, trans. by Richmond Lattimore, Hesiod
Skanda Purana II (Vishnukanda, Karttikamasa Mahatmya). 17. Rupam, No.1. Calcutta: Jan. 1920.
Taittiriya Upanishad 3.10.5-6, trans. Robert Ernest Hume, The Thirteen Principal Upanishads, London: Oxford University Press, 1921.
Poetic Edda – a Norse writing
The Pyramid Texts in Translation and Commentary. trans. Samuel A.B. Mercer, New York: Longmans, Green and Co., 1952.
Heraclitus. Fragment 80. Trans. F.M. Cornford, Greek Religious Thought, London: J.M. Dent and Sons, 1923.
The Book of the Master Tsou on Coming into Being and Passing Away – fifth century B.C.
Hellenistic Religions by Frederick C. Grant is full of primary source material for the Greco-Roman gods. Here are a few examples:
Corpus Inscriptionum Latinarum VI. 510; H. Dessau, Inscriptiones Latinae Selectae II. 1 (1902), No. 4152 – this is an inscription found in Rome, dated August 13, 376 A.D.
Apuleis. Metamorphoses. trans. H.E. Butler from the Oxford Library of Translations 1910.
Stobaeus. Kore Kosmou in “Eclogae I.” – 5th(?) century A.D. Hermetic tract
Dio Chyrsostom. Oratio. – 1st century A.D.
Other good books to point towards source materials on pagan gods, 1) Paganism and Christianity: 100-425 C.E., by Ramsay MacMullen and Eugene N. Lane, 1992, 2) Gods and the One God by Robert M. Grant, 1986.
If you are truly seeking source materials, I suggest the use of the aforementioned studies to give you direction in locating source documents. And, as you know, there is a wealth of information regarding source material at local university libraries.
Thanks,
MJ
yes. this is very good to see. (it being written about that is)
thank you. Alastair
Alastair,
Thanks for your comment!
MJ
Hi…I’m so happy to have found this site. I am a Christian and I recently watched Zeitgeist. I have so many questions regarding this movie. I really want to research the resources. What books would you suggest? Thanks…Leslie
Leslie,
I’m excited that you want to check into the validity of the “Zeitgeist” claims!
Are you wanting to start at more of an overview level, Lee Strobel’s “The Case for the Real Jesus,” or a scholarly review and critique, “Gods and the One God” by Robert M. Grant, or an in-depth scholarly review and critique, Gunter Wagner’s “Pauline Baptism and the Pagan Mysteries”? OR are you wanting to read the actual ancient writings of Apuleius, Ovid, Plutarch, Minucius Felix, Aelius Aristides, Tertullian, Justin Martyr, and so on?
Let me know how to help! I’ll recommend some reading at whatever level you’d like to start at!
Thanks,
MJ
Guys, Thanks for posting your references with your rebuttal. Of the part 1 of this movie. It shows that if nothing else you took the content seriously enough to rebut it using the best information you possess. I respect that.
First, I think the answers seemed a bit too pat for the story on religion and could have been up to several interpretations by learned scholars.
One of which I am not by the way.
I think that if nothing else, something like this helps us all stop for a moment and reorient our compass to find true north, at least your true north 🙂
It should be every persons goal to test these spirits.
Thank you for the information to do that.
I would just like to state that the only thing that makes Christianity any more credible is the detail preserved in the bible… I might also add that Christians had any piece of mythology that they could get a hold of destroyed… This went on for over a thousand years… Christianity IS NO different than any other religion except that it has a better PR agent….
Anonymous,
As you had said, the Bible actually does have lots of details to investigate (names, dates, geography, events) and those details do make it more credible than the mythological stories; like Osiris or Mithras.
“I might also add that Christians had any piece of mythology that they could get a hold of destroyed…”
Conspiracy-theory comments like this one are extremely hard to back up with anything. Do you have some evidence?
“Christianity IS NO different than any other religion except that it has a better PR agent….”
This is just a gross misrepresentation of not just Christianity, but religions in general. Religions differ greatly in their doctrines and practices. Please provide something to work with here.
“has a better PR agent….”
I agree…the God of the Christian faith is the only God who offered himself as the answer for how humanity can be saved; through Jesus Christ. That makes Jesus the best PR agent ever!
Thanks,
MJ
Chix,
Why did you leave out the facts of the paralell lives of Jesus Christ and Horus?
Horus was one of the main sun-god’s that Zeitgiest used to compare to Jesus’ to.
What say ye?
Everyone, go check out this link and read the amazing similarities between the lives of Jesus and Horus:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm
Why didn’t the Chix include Horus in their report?
Eric – Horus is not the only one I didn’t comment on, there are others I did not include, mostly because of time. I choose a few of the
most commonly paralleled “gods.” Although, I’m interested in eventually looking at all of the ancient “gods.”
Horus was the son of Isis and Osiris. Now there are at least two versions of Horus’ birth. One version is that he is the offspring of Isis and Osiris who had sexual intercourse inside of their mother’s, Nut’s, womb.1 Osiris and Isis had sexual intercourse as unborn children inside their mother’s womb! This is not comparable to the virgin birth of Jesus. Why is this part of Horus’ birth left out of the Zeitgeist film?
I am also concerned that Zeitgeist left out details like the fact that the most complete story concerning Isis and Osiris was put together by a 2nd century author, Plutarch, who post-dates the writings of the New Testament.2 Most of the other information is found piecemeal in Egyptian and Greek sources and in archaeological finds.3
Another account of Horus’ birth:
After Osiris had been murdered by suffocation (according to one story), his wife, Isis, set out to find him. There are a few accounts of what happened next, but eventually Isis was reunited with the dead body of her husband, Osiris. She placed him on a barge on the Nile and set out for home. As she returned home, she laid upon him and wept, and conceived a child; Horus. In fact, a drawing found at the Osiris temple at Dendara depicted Osiris with an erect phallus and Isis, in the shape of a falcon, approaching him to receive his semen; in other words, to have intercourse with his dead body.4 This is definitely not like the virgin birth of Jesus.
If a person is going to compare Jesus to Horus, they need to include the entire story, not just the parts that make the case look better than it is. This is called special pleading or cherry-picking the argument. There are many aspects of the stories that Zeitgeist has left untouched in their comparison, like those above. If the makers of Zeitgeist had included these details in their version of “Jesus was virgin born and so was Horus,” it would have made their case look much worse.
Instead of jumping to ill-substantiated conclusions, of which Zeitgeist stands guilty, I suggest reading as many of the sources as possible to compare the myths against Christianity for themselves. If such a task is too time consuming, than at least a person could investigate what the scholars are saying on all sides of the argument.
T.N.D. Mettinger in his book, “The Riddle of Resurrection: ‘Dying and Rising Gods’ in the Ancient Near East,” states, “There is [ ] no prima facie evidence that the death and resurrection of Jesus is a mythological construct, drawing on the myths and rites of the dying and rising gods of the surrounding world. While studied with profit against the background of Jewish resurrection belief, the faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus retains its unique character in the history of religions. The riddle remains.”5
Thanks,
MJ
1 – Plutarch. “Concerning Isis and Osiris,” as quoted in Grant, “Hellenistic Religions: The Age of Syncretism,” fourth printing, (Indianapolis: The Bobbs-Merrill Company, Inc., 1953)” 83.
2 – James George Frazer, The Golden Bough: A Study in Magic and Religion, abridged ed. (New York: The Macmillan Co., 1922); Internet; available from ; accessed 14 July 2008.; See also Frederick C. Grant, “Hellenistic Religions: The Age of Syncretism,” 80; Tryggve N.D. Mettinger, “The Riddle of Resurrection: ‘Dying and Rising Gods’ in the Ancient Near East” (Stockholm: Amqvist and Wiksell International, 2001), 168.
3 – Grant, “Hellenistic Religions,” 80.
4 – Tryggve N.D. Mettinger, “The Riddle of Resurrection: ‘Dying and Rising Gods’ in the Ancient Near East” (Stockholm: Amqvist and Wiksell International, 2001), 173. Illustration 6.2.
5– Mettinger, The Riddle of Resurrection, 221.
Corrections:
…I suggest reading as many of the sources as possible to compare the myths against Christianity. ( for themselves should be excluded)
Footnote #2 should be linked as follows:
2 – James George Frazer, The Golden Bough: A Study in Magic and Religion, abridged ed. (New York: The Macmillan Co., 1922); Internet; available from http://www.bartleby.com; accessed 14 July 2008.; See also Frederick C. Grant, “Hellenistic Religions: The Age of Syncretism,” 80; Tryggve N.D. Mettinger, “The Riddle of Resurrection: ‘Dying and Rising Gods’ in the Ancient Near East” (Stockholm: Amqvist and Wiksell International, 2001), 168.
Great blog, Chix. I studied the issue of the mystery religions and how they stacked up against Christianity as an undergraduate, and was looking for a venue to further my knowledge on the issue.
I am also interested in examining the astronomical explanations for Christian dogma. They seem, to me, to be over-simplifications of core tenets of Christianity…an especially tenuous explanation considering how little value the celestial bodies hold now.
In some of these mystery religions the sun or the moon remained important, but not so with Christianity.
~Jeremiah
Jeremiah,
Thank you.
MJ
Hi MJ,
Thanks for the article…
I was almost interested in joining the ZeitGeist movement, when, after seeing their causes and goals, I had this…weird feeling. I always think that this movement somehow contradicts christianity…
Faizal
MJ
Just finished watching the movie, and immediately looked around for some counter arguments. Thanks for renewing my faith a little bit. God bless.
Pete
Blogs are so informative where we get lots of information on any topic. Nice job keep it up!!
_____________________________
Dissertation Proposal
To Steven, whose comment appears to have gone by the wayside….
"It says to me that many important Christian ideas could have been pulled straight out of the sky (literally!) and that perhaps the entire IDEA of religion is based on astronomical bodies and their movement."
Is it possible that perhaps God put into the hearts of His creation, Man, the desire for Him? And that since the "dawn of Man", Man has been looking for God wherever they can find Him? And in their often faulty searching, they looked to the most marvelous, far out thing they could possibly see, and not begin to grasp – that is, the heavens?
That seems to me to be a very good explanation (if you believe in the Creation of the universe by the Christian God) of why so many religions look to the heavens for answers and predictions.
"It is proven that there were religions before Christianity. These religions stemmed from, as far as I can tell, mythology involving astronomical bodies. If Christianity has the same relations to astronomy as the others, what makes it more valid as a religion (religion, not way of life)?"
If my aforementioned thoughts are correct, then many of the religions DID indeed stem from mythology surrounding astronomical bodies…but only because humans have it in them to look for something beyond their explanation to explain their existence. If Jehovah God IS the creator of the universe (and hence the creator of the astronomical bodies), the relationship of the Christian religion to other mythological religions is not nearly as strong as it might seem.
Just a thought. 😀
Josiah
i cant believe all this.. the human mind is so weak that it NEEDS myths like religion and what not to keep mankind THINKING that they know everything their is to know. Simply put i think people need to stop feeling so strongly in one direction… if you look at all this bull … from a 3rd party view its no different than a tv show. there is no higher power. your a joke if you believe your life all part of something bigger. were all ants and completely oblivious to the truth no matter how much speculation
Maybe you shouldn't 'debunk' Zeitgeist movie itself, but the book that it is based of: "The Christ Conspiracy" by Acharya S.
Actually Acharya S were rise in christianity and then became a archeologist…
shawn.bobryk:
Thanks for your opinion. There were a lot of assumptions in that post that are going to need some evidence and argumentation to back up: 1) The human mind being so weak it needs myths, 2)People need to stop feeling so strongly in one direction, 3)There is no higher power, 4) You are a joke if you believe your life is all part of something bigger, and 5) We are completely oblivious to the truth no matter how much we speculate.
By that last statement, no one can know anything certain so we shouldn't even consider your speculation here as carrying any weight, right?
Our lives are not a part of something bigger, we are all just ants….what is the proper outworking of this belief? What does it look like lived out?
Anon – Yeah, it would be a good idea to debunk the book instead of just the movie. However, it is also a good idea to debunk the more powerful medium of communication, which is the movie.
MJ
Yeah Mary, you should debunk the movie.
But as an professional christian apologist that you are, as I've seen, you should also acknowledge that the primary source is much more important to debunk because other movies and media like this could arise.
I would like to comment that I was also a christian apologist, but I drop christianity because of Ken Wilber's logic and Archaya's book.
What I find curious is how Abraham's role in the bible is completely ignored…historically, Abraham was acknowledged to have been a sun worshipper, yet a real encounter and a covenant with God was enough to turn him away from his belief…a covenant which was eventually fulfilled through the death of Jesus on the cross.
Nobody approached Abraham to tell him about God, he wasn't told any scriptures by any mystics…it was an encounter that changed him and an encounter powerful enough to turn him from his "religion" to a sound belief in a "new" God. Abraham does not appear through the bible or other religious writings as a man of unsound mind … Why would a man wantingly turn from a 'sound' astrolological belief to a different faith, unless the encounter he had was real?
I found your article to be informative…having just watched the zeitgeist movie and it's follow-ups recently. I found them to be fundamentally flawed in the way that many other 'religiocentric' movies of today like 'religulous' etc. Are.
Most of these movies portray Christianity as a segregationary and, while some religious sects are, they forget that christianity is, in essence, a faith, not a religion, where a belief and love leads to behaviour that conforms to a set of principles, not the adherement to a set of principles to faith and love. They play on how the misinterpretation of christianity as a religion has caused suffering, which even I, as a christian, cannot deny…even Apartheid was given a religious justification! Further, no one can deny that the crusades were real and caused immense suffering. However, these acts were misguided and not of the true nature of what is the christian faith. They cannot be led as an example of what christianity as a faith is
Abraham was not given a set of rules to obey by God … Merely a covenant, that God would make his descendants into a great nation.
As a matter of opinion, I think that the post-modernist idea of 'no underlying social dialect' as purported by the zeitgeist movement is in part to blame…humans are intrinsically selfish…we want to be able to do things with no consequences. If there is no 'higher' order or structure, we can just do as we please (only the zeitgeist movement packages it with the frills of 'do not harm one another').
There are certain infallible higher truths within the world, like 1+1 will always equal 2. And, as dr. Kent hovind says, the two truths are you can either believ in the beginning god or in the beginning dirt…those are your choices.
After some research into intelligent design and the biomechanical machinary that exists within side our own human cells, not to mention the bacterial flangellum, I, along with many other reputable SCIENTISTS, find it hard not to acknowledge the existence of intelligent design. And, within those confines, nearly impossible not to acknowledge the existence of a real living god.
Having said that, onto the topic of jesus…there are other accounts outside of the bible that acknowledge his existence, some appearances, teachings and death. And, while some contradict the bible, certain fundamentals remain the same…he existed, taught that he was the son of god and was killed. Based purely on those facts, we can purport 3 arguments … Either he was lying, he was mad or he was telling the truth. I doubt many people would be willing to endure death, especially death by suffication by cruxifiction, in order to promote a lie. His other documented interactions do not show him as a madman. So, under these constrains, we can assume that any remaining conclusion must be the truth…which is that he was the son of god.
Primary sources & scholar commentary on them support ZG1:
Sourcebook
http://stellarhousepublishing.com/zeitgeistsourcebook.pdf
Rebuttal to Dr. Chris Forbes
http://truthbeknown.com/chrisforbeszeitgeist.html
Zeitgeist Part 1
http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2997
A Brief History of Jesus's Winter Solstice Birthday
http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=22108#p22108
Sun/son
http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=4835#p4835
http://dec25th.info