13 thoughts on “The Minimal Facts Approach – Fact #1”

1. Great post.

   >What I am not saying is that these facts prove the resurrection of Jesus historically. What I am saying is that the best explanation of these facts, when combined, is a resurrection of Jesus.< This leaves room for other options. I am curious as to what they would be.

2. Anonymous,

   Presumably Mary Jo has in mind the standard atheist alternatives: that the disciples made the whole thing up, that Jesus swooned but didn’t actually die on the cross, that the disciples went to the wrong tomb and had mass hallucinations thereafter, etc. But remember: “room” for such options as bare logical possibilities is one thing; plausibility for them is another. I think Mary Jo intends only the former and is just pointing out that history is not like pure logic or mathematics where we can prove things in a way that rules out the logical possibility of incompatible alternatives.

3. Tim,

   That is exactly what I am saying! There are other possible hypotheses that attempt to explain the four facts. These hypotheses are possible, however their explanatory power is lacking when checked against the four facts in this approach.

   Anonymous:
   The atheist alternative explanations usually center around the ones Tim mentioned. These hypotheses, however, do not explain all four facts. For example, the theory that Jesus was a myth does not account for the documentation on his death.

   And I have spoken with people who flat out deny Jesus’ existence. Jesus’ death being a well-attested historical event is a problem for denying his existence.

   MJ

4. Thanks for the info.

5. To say that Jesus was crucified is a different thing than to say he died by crucifixion. Who can actually attest to the death of Jesus on a cross? Certainly not any of the sources you cite from antiquity. Only the bible references directly his death and the only eye-witness is apparently a Roman centurion who had probably never been asked to pronounce a death prior to this. Even Pontius Pilate, if you accept the account in Mark, is disbelieving to the news that Jesus was already dead. The greatest dangers facing Christianity appear to be the bible itself and the actual truth about those things relating to the story of the resurrection. Most Christians and apologists are extremely fearful of the bible and what it actually might uncover concerning the reality of what took place 2,000 years ago. The minimal facts approach to the resurrection, when pursued in greater detail, can be exposed for what they actually are. They appear to be distortions and/or concoctions simply used to prove an already accepted hypothesis. They are easily disproven as “facts”.

6. Thom, I feel the weight of the challenge, "They appear to be distortions and/or concoctions simply used to prove an already accepted hypothesis." But "They are easily disproven as "facts" is less compelling. The minimal facts in this case are not arbitrary. They have been carefully researched, verified, and documented as being agreed to by the vast majority of scholars including those who do not believe that Jesus actually bodily rose from the dead. Disagreement with them as stated must be so at the expense of the majority of scholarship on these points.

   You yourself have granted Jesus crucifixion while being skeptical that he died by such.

   I am interested in your arguments against these minimal facts. On what evidence do you base the conclusion, "They appear to be distortions and/or concoctions simply used to prove an already accepted hypothesis?"

   Sincerely,

   Travis

7. Travis, happy to respond to your inquiry regarding the arguments against the minimal facts approach to the resurrection. And I will cover just two in brief fashion.

   1–The first I have already dealt with and that would be the death of Jesus on the Cross. What is the actual data that you can cite as proof that Jesus died on the Cross? Habermas, Craig, Licona, and others stress the importance of data to support or prove any hypothesis. What is this "data" to prove the death of Jesus? Remember, citing some reference from antiquity that makes mention of someone named Jesus being crucified is not "data". It is the death of Jesus not the crucifixion of Jesus that is in question. I'll await your "data" and we can deal with it as you present it.

   2–The "fact" that James the brother of Jesus came to his belief only after an appearance of the risen Jesus to him is simply hogwash. Nowhere, especially not in Scripture, can you find any reference to or connection between an appearance of the risen Jesus to James and his ultimate belief. It is simply make believe. It sounds nice, however, and certainly fits the tendenz of the "minimal facts" proponents. It is not a "fact", however, by any stretch. I won't call it a distortion but it is certainly, at the very least, a misrepresentation. Again, it appears to be done simply to further establish in some distorted way the already outlined hypothesis that Jesus was raised from the dead.

   I'll stop at this point and allow you to respond. Every "minimal fact" can be challenged and I am happy to continue the discussion.

8. Dear Mary Jo Sharp
   I was listening to your show archives, they were very enlightning and gave me so much info. I need some of this as I am a pastor's wife and I'm constantly having to defend who Christ is and what He has done in my life. It was refreshing to hear some of your statement. I enjoyed listening to them, rarely are pastor's wife given tactics and ways to defend what it is we believe and how to keep in straight in my mind. Thank you so much for your insight. But, I did go on line and listen to Penn Gillette "A Gift of the Bible" To bad he is still an atheist. But, maybe some day he will see the light. Thanks again and God bless you for what you are doing.
   Sincerely, lowlander liz

9. Lowlander liz-

   Thanks, I appreciate the encouragement.

   MJ

10. To the anonymous poster from today, November 8th: I did not post your comment due to one curse word. If you'd like to re-post the same thought minus the curse word, I'll post it.

    Thanks,
    MJ

11. no deal.

12. Stumbled upon this site this morning and remembered that you had posted some of my thoughts on the Minimal Facts Approach to the Resurrection. Sorry that Travis apparently decided
    to discontinue the conversation.

    The Resurrection has been a fascinating topic of discussion and research by many for centuries, and I am still looking for anyone who would like to develop a substantial defense for the claims of Christianity. Ultimately it appears that "faith" is the essential ingredient to this and all beliefs of a religious nature. It seems that the Minimal Facts approach while well intended is simply another inadequate effort to "prove" the claims of Christianity. It would certainly not appear to be a defense that one would want to offer in an educated, public debate.

    At some level people of faith are much to be envied, and I do believe that it is in the final analysis a matter of faith.

    Thanks for posting my comments.

13. I find it sad that a lost and faithful unbeliever such as Thom has showed his extreme bias by using such juvenile terms as hogwash concering facts that liberal and conservative scholars agree upon. Not only is the faith of James the Lord's brother, as well as The Apostle Paul firmly attested to by history and scripture but so is the martyrdom of all of the disciples of Christ for their faith. (Except of couse John whom the emperor attempted to martyr and still maintained his faith.) As we all know liars make poor martyrs. If these men had not seen Jesus bodily risen from the dead, they would have recanted and spared their lives. Thom, you also fail to understand the definition of proof as established by Professor Simon Greenleaf of Harvard, the author of "Standards of Legal Evidence." a textbook that is still used today to establish standards of admissibility. In "The Testimony of The Four Evangelists." Greenleaf established that testimonies are considered to be valid and trustworthy unless firmly disproven by evidence to the contrary. He also establishes the problem of motive. No benefit or motive of perjury has ever been presented or established in any way to discount in the least that the Gospel testimonies are not valid. The burden of proof legally therefore is on you Thom; and that against overwhelming evidence. As Blaise Pascal once said, "If you are right and I am wrong then we both simply turn to dust. If I am right and you are wrong then you are condemned to eternal torment for your refusing God's free gift of eternal life through faith in the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ." Your gamble would cost you everything. That is not God's desire for you Thom because He loves you very much. Accept God's free gift and live. Hell is a terrible place that was not created for man, and God does not want you there. But if you refuse God's free gift then you have yourself made that choice to be forever separated from God and His love and goodness. Please don't do this. Jesus loves you. That's why He died for you. If you were the only person in the world, Jesus would have died just for you. Please accept Him as your savior. He loves you and wants a personal relationship with you, so that you can be with Him forever in paradise where God's word promises us that there are pleasures at His right hand forevermore. Don't miss out. Ask Jesus to be your Lord and Savior today. He's waiting with love and open arms for you to recieve Him. Just say this simple prayer, "Heavenly Father, I confess that I am a sinner who is in need of The Savior. I accept your free gift of eternal life found Through faith in The Lord Jesus Christ. I believe in my heart that you raised Him from the dead for my justification. Thank you Father. I am saved and a new creature in Christ Jesus. Thank you Father, in Jesus name, Amen." Now that you have said that prayer, welcome to the family of God. I can't wait to meet you and get to know my new brother in Christ. God Bless you, and please find a good group of Bible teaching believers to fellowship with and to help build up your faith. Peace, and love in Christ. Justin.

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