12 thoughts on “Christian Thinkers Society Interview”
"Christian Thinkers"
That's a knee slapper!!!
Hey Mary Jo, I noticed that you buried Muslims in distasteful verses, but why didn’t you include the Old Testament laws? Hmmm: Like where it says if a woman wasn’t a virgin she was to be horrifically stoned to death at her fathers doorstep (law of the OT god; ouch!)…or where a daughter (a woman) could be sold basically as a sex slave and if the situation didn’t work out she could be bought back with money (another law of the OT god; ouch!) …if her husband suspected his wife cheated on him she was to be given a poison concoction (which she had to drink) as a test …the OT god gave all of Saul’s wives to king David (something like a wife swap; ouch) …Moses told the Israeli army to kill all the men and to keep the women as part of the spoils of war (ouch) …and I could on and on and you know I could …so why didn’t you mention any of these …scared it might hurt your case against Muslims?
And what about hell?, Isn’t the Christian god going to burn billions and billions of women to death in a inescapable torture chamber, for all of eternity—where there will be unending weeping and gnashing of teeth?
Brett – Thanks for your inquiry.
I did not "bury" Muslims in distasteful verses. I scratched the surface of their doctrine on women and the amount of material available for review. That's all you can do in an interview or in an article. There's so much more to cover. I treated some of the O.T. passages in my debate in a mosque in Toronto in front of an audience of mostly Muslims (85% of 300ish people). Have you done any work like this in front of a live Christian audience? I'd be interested to hear about their reaction and how the debate went.
Why I didn't mention any of these…some of them are in my debate. Others are handled by Paul Copan's and Clay Jones' works on the Old Testament laws. The article I wrote was entitled, "Did Muhammad Believe in Women's Rights?"; not "A Comparative Look at Women in Islam and Christianity." A similar question would be "Why don't atheists defend Darwin and Schopenhauer's statements on the explicit inferiority of women every time they seek to engage women's issues according to the Biblical texts?" My main objective was to look at the Islamic text. A secondary issue is the one that logically follows, the issue of women in the Bible (which is why the host brought it up). The same is true of an atheist argument against the Biblical view of women. The first objective would be to address concerns with the Biblical view. The secondary issue that follows is the issue of women according to texts by atheists that can be used for establishing a view on women.
In Christian theology, there is no difference between males and females with regard to hell. Islam explicitly teaches women are a majority in hell due to their deficiency of intellect, their deficiency of religion, and that they curse too much and are ungrateful towards their husbands. (Sahih Muslim 142, Muhammad's teaching relating back to Surah 2:282). Please find a passage in the Bible that is a one-to-one with this Islamic theology for us to discuss concerning the issue of women in hell.
One major difference in the argument between women in Islam and Christianity: Christianity has a new covenant that is found in Christ and in his teachings. Islam has no new covenant. Have you found this difference affects your arguments in this area?
Due to my extremely busy schedule, I can only fulfill your request to debate if you want to discuss one textual passage at a time. If the method is a shot-gun approach, I'm afraid it won't be a fruitful engagement. Please pick a verse you'd like to discuss and set it up in context for the readers. Since it appears that you have investigated this topic from the Old Testament, please tell me where he says this and then clarify the author’s intent for that particular passage. Specifically, I will need to understand your comprehension of:
Context – Who was this passage speaking to? What was the point the author was trying to make? How would the hearers have interpreted this statement in light of their own culture and language? What specific cultural issue was being addressed?
Application – What are the readers supposed to take away from this statement? How does this passage reflect or go against their culture? How was the passage outworked into the lives of those receiving it?
Theological implications – Was God condoning the behavior? What was the implication: was it that this behavior was acceptable or inacceptable?
I've noticed your blog title is also your book title. Where can I find scholarly reviews of your book?
Thank you again, MJ
Correction: "where he says this" should read, "where it [the O.T.] says this"
OK Mary Jo, your on
Numbers 31:7-47
…Moses also told the Israeli army to kill all of the women who were not virgins (I wonder how many women were pregnant that got slaughtered [aren't Christians against abortions?]) and keep the young girls who are virgins (some say the girls were likely 9 years old or 12 years old; gross!) for themselves (they even showed how the women got passed around like meat; just read Numbers 31:7-47, tell me what you think Mary Jo [also: how would they know the women who were not virgins? any thoughts on that?])…
Context – Who was this passage speaking to? …the Christian god ordered a hit on the Midianites (i.e. for Israel to destroy them)
What was the point the author was trying to make? …payback is a $%%#! So don’t lead the Israelites astray lest the Christian god barbarically slaughter (butcher to death) your entire community (babies, elderly people, pregnant women, toddlers, teenagers, the sick—everyone must die) by the sword!
How would the hearers have interpreted this statement in light of their own culture and language? Anyone who leads Israeli astray is basically a dead man walking/as well as a note to Israel—don’t worship other gods! …and if your super young female virgin (some say these girls were 9 or 12 years old; yikes) and catch the eye of the solders, you might just live another day (hey Mary Jo, isn’t this pedophilia? Men basically raping young virgin girls after they’ve been passed them around like meat! What are your thoughts Mary Jo?)!
What specific cultural issue was being addressed? Young pretty virgin girls of other nations were prized booty (i.e. very desirable spoils of war)
Application – What are the readers supposed to take away from this statement? The Christian god can be loving and tender but in the same breathe the Christian god can have Hitler type tendencies—slaughter (butcher to death/massacre) the entire town/village/community (spare not babies, elderly people, pregnant women, toddlers, teenagers, the sick, from the harrowing sword) …so don’t worship other gods
How does this passage reflect or go against their culture? These verses are how they did things back then, and the Christian god was the Commander and Chief of his marauding (raiding/pillaging) crew!
How was the passage outworked into the lives of those receiving it? It scared the living daylights out of them—don’t worship other gods or the Christian god could flip on you and have you slaughtered (yes, butchered to death) by the sword
Theological implications – Was God condoning the behavior? Yes, for in Numbers 31:25, the Christian god planed out how to deal with all the booty! The Christian god even had his own share of booty (read Numbers 31:28 and 40 and —which he gave to the Eleazar!
What was the implication:
was it that this behavior was acceptable or inacceptable? This behavior was acceptable because the Christian god mathematically passed a shocking 32,000 young virgin girls around like meat—in fact the super young girls were included with the cattle and sheep and donkeys!
Again Mary Jo: how can you talk about women rights (or whatever you do) and blast Muslims and women who have abortions (and other people who do things against your beliefs) when this barbaric inhumane make-you-want-to-vomit stuff sits wide open in your own bible—and its shockingly orchestrated by the Christian god who you (Mary Jo) sing love songs and worship songs to! Is such behavior even rationale?
Me and the people can’t wait for your response, Mary Jo
visit me at the newest hardest hitting blog that even has William Lane Craig running scared:
Mary Jo says: One major difference in the argument between women in Islam and Christianity: Christianity has a new covenant that is found in Christ and in his teachings. Islam has no new covenant. Have you found this difference affects your arguments in this area?
Brett’s reply: No it doesn’t affect my argument because the OT god is the NT god/Jesus …different angles but the same god/Jesus, regardless of OT or NT—same being (wrapped in the trinity)
Mary Jo says: I've noticed your blog title is also your book title. Where can I find scholarly reviews of your book?
Brett says: just ask the over 3,000 people who have bought the book …and be sure to visit the hardest hitting blog that has Christian apologists stunned and speechless:
I read Strong's comments here yesterday and went to his blog.It has many of the objections Muslims raise,so I left an answer to his first objection there on the cmment section in his blog(it is about Deut 20:3-15).I hope he can see there are answers.Good swers,really.
thanks for posting Minori!
Read Numbers 31:17-47; it involves the 'raping' of 32,000 young virgin girls (after their mothers, aunts, friends, sisters, fathers, brothers, and granparents were violently butchered to death by the sword) ….some have said these terrified girls were as a young as 9 or 12 years old …shocking isn't!
Common Mary Jo and have the guts to post my response 🙂 …you are an Christian Apologists, right …with the fight of a lion, right …then let the games begin!
Mary Jo: if not, no problem, you're still cute anyways 🙂 …have a great day Mary Jo …either way, you are still awesome …keep up the good work :-), may your ministry grow by leaps and bounds …later
Thanks Mary Jo for posting my response :-), you are awesome, wonderful and an amazing Christian Apologist–you go girl 🙂
Hello,to the readers,I have already posted 3 answers to the questions given by Strong about NUMBERS 31 and other things,so you can judge if they are good answers.Read them here:
"Christian Thinkers"
That's a knee slapper!!!
Hey Mary Jo, I noticed that you buried Muslims in distasteful verses, but why didn’t you include the Old Testament laws? Hmmm: Like where it says if a woman wasn’t a virgin she was to be horrifically stoned to death at her fathers doorstep (law of the OT god; ouch!)…or where a daughter (a woman) could be sold basically as a sex slave and if the situation didn’t work out she could be bought back with money (another law of the OT god; ouch!) …if her husband suspected his wife cheated on him she was to be given a poison concoction (which she had to drink) as a test …the OT god gave all of Saul’s wives to king David (something like a wife swap; ouch) …Moses told the Israeli army to kill all the men and to keep the women as part of the spoils of war (ouch) …and I could on and on and you know I could …so why didn’t you mention any of these …scared it might hurt your case against Muslims?
Brett Strong
Visit me at my blog: http://jesusisahoax.blogspot.com/ and would love to debate you on such matters
And what about hell?, Isn’t the Christian god going to burn billions and billions of women to death in a inescapable torture chamber, for all of eternity—where there will be unending weeping and gnashing of teeth?
Brett – Thanks for your inquiry.
I did not "bury" Muslims in distasteful verses. I scratched the surface of their doctrine on women and the amount of material available for review. That's all you can do in an interview or in an article. There's so much more to cover. I treated some of the O.T. passages in my debate in a mosque in Toronto in front of an audience of mostly Muslims (85% of 300ish people). Have you done any work like this in front of a live Christian audience? I'd be interested to hear about their reaction and how the debate went.
Why I didn't mention any of these…some of them are in my debate. Others are handled by Paul Copan's and Clay Jones' works on the Old Testament laws. The article I wrote was entitled, "Did Muhammad Believe in Women's Rights?"; not "A Comparative Look at Women in Islam and Christianity." A similar question would be "Why don't atheists defend Darwin and Schopenhauer's statements on the explicit inferiority of women every time they seek to engage women's issues according to the Biblical texts?" My main objective was to look at the Islamic text. A secondary issue is the one that logically follows, the issue of women in the Bible (which is why the host brought it up). The same is true of an atheist argument against the Biblical view of women. The first objective would be to address concerns with the Biblical view. The secondary issue that follows is the issue of women according to texts by atheists that can be used for establishing a view on women.
In Christian theology, there is no difference between males and females with regard to hell. Islam explicitly teaches women are a majority in hell due to their deficiency of intellect, their deficiency of religion, and that they curse too much and are ungrateful towards their husbands. (Sahih Muslim 142, Muhammad's teaching relating back to Surah 2:282). Please find a passage in the Bible that is a one-to-one with this Islamic theology for us to discuss concerning the issue of women in hell.
One major difference in the argument between women in Islam and Christianity: Christianity has a new covenant that is found in Christ and in his teachings. Islam has no new covenant. Have you found this difference affects your arguments in this area?
Due to my extremely busy schedule, I can only fulfill your request to debate if you want to discuss one textual passage at a time. If the method is a shot-gun approach, I'm afraid it won't be a fruitful engagement. Please pick a verse you'd like to discuss and set it up in context for the readers. Since it appears that you have investigated this topic from the Old Testament, please tell me where he says this and then clarify the author’s intent for that particular passage. Specifically, I will need to understand your comprehension of:
Context – Who was this passage speaking to? What was the point the author was trying to make? How would the hearers have interpreted this statement in light of their own culture and language? What specific cultural issue was being addressed?
Application – What are the readers supposed to take away from this statement? How does this passage reflect or go against their culture? How was the passage outworked into the lives of those receiving it?
Theological implications – Was God condoning the behavior? What was the implication: was it that this behavior was acceptable or inacceptable?
I've noticed your blog title is also your book title. Where can I find scholarly reviews of your book?
Thank you again,
MJ
Correction: "where he says this" should read, "where it [the O.T.] says this"
OK Mary Jo, your on
Numbers 31:7-47
…Moses also told the Israeli army to kill all of the women who were not virgins (I wonder how many women were pregnant that got slaughtered [aren't Christians against abortions?]) and keep the young girls who are virgins (some say the girls were likely 9 years old or 12 years old; gross!) for themselves (they even showed how the women got passed around like meat; just read Numbers 31:7-47, tell me what you think Mary Jo [also: how would they know the women who were not virgins? any thoughts on that?])…
Context
–
Who was this passage speaking to? …the Christian god ordered a hit on the Midianites (i.e. for Israel to destroy them)
What was the point the author was trying to make? …payback is a $%%#! So don’t lead the Israelites astray lest the Christian god barbarically slaughter (butcher to death) your entire community (babies, elderly people, pregnant women, toddlers, teenagers, the sick—everyone must die) by the sword!
How would the hearers have interpreted this statement in light of their own culture and language? Anyone who leads Israeli astray is basically a dead man walking/as well as a note to Israel—don’t worship other gods! …and if your super young female virgin (some say these girls were 9 or 12 years old; yikes) and catch the eye of the solders, you might just live another day (hey Mary Jo, isn’t this pedophilia? Men basically raping young virgin girls after they’ve been passed them around like meat! What are your thoughts Mary Jo?)!
What specific cultural issue was being addressed? Young pretty virgin girls of other nations were prized booty (i.e. very desirable spoils of war)
Application
–
What are the readers supposed to take away from this statement? The Christian god can be loving and tender but in the same breathe the Christian god can have Hitler type tendencies—slaughter (butcher to death/massacre) the entire town/village/community (spare not babies, elderly people, pregnant women, toddlers, teenagers, the sick, from the harrowing sword) …so don’t worship other gods
How does this passage reflect or go against their culture? These verses are how they did things back then, and the Christian god was the Commander and Chief of his marauding (raiding/pillaging) crew!
How was the passage outworked into the lives of those receiving it? It scared the living daylights out of them—don’t worship other gods or the Christian god could flip on you and have you slaughtered (yes, butchered to death) by the sword
Theological implications
–
Was God condoning the behavior? Yes, for in Numbers 31:25, the Christian god planed out how to deal with all the booty! The Christian god even had his own share of booty (read Numbers 31:28 and 40 and —which he gave to the Eleazar!
What was the implication:
was it that this behavior was acceptable or inacceptable? This behavior was acceptable because the Christian god mathematically passed a shocking 32,000 young virgin girls around like meat—in fact the super young girls were included with the cattle and sheep and donkeys!
Again Mary Jo: how can you talk about women rights (or whatever you do) and blast Muslims and women who have abortions (and other people who do things against your beliefs) when this barbaric inhumane make-you-want-to-vomit stuff sits wide open in your own bible—and its shockingly orchestrated by the Christian god who you (Mary Jo) sing love songs and worship songs to! Is such behavior even rationale?
Me and the people can’t wait for your response, Mary Jo
visit me at the newest hardest hitting blog that even has William Lane Craig running scared:
http://jesusisahoax.blogspot.com/
Mary Jo says: One major difference in the argument between women in Islam and Christianity: Christianity has a new covenant that is found in Christ and in his teachings. Islam has no new covenant. Have you found this difference affects your arguments in this area?
Brett’s reply: No it doesn’t affect my argument because the OT god is the NT god/Jesus …different angles but the same god/Jesus, regardless of OT or NT—same being (wrapped in the trinity)
Mary Jo says: I've noticed your blog title is also your book title. Where can I find scholarly reviews of your book?
Brett says: just ask the over 3,000 people who have bought the book …and be sure to visit the hardest hitting blog that has Christian apologists stunned and speechless:
http://jesusisahoax.blogspot.com/
Hi Mary Jo,
I read Strong's comments here yesterday and went to his blog.It has many of the objections Muslims raise,so I left an answer to his first objection there on the cmment section in his blog(it is about Deut 20:3-15).I hope he can see there are answers.Good swers,really.
thanks for posting Minori!
Read Numbers 31:17-47; it involves the 'raping' of 32,000 young virgin girls (after their mothers, aunts, friends, sisters, fathers, brothers, and granparents were violently butchered to death by the sword) ….some have said these terrified girls were as a young as 9 or 12 years old …shocking isn't!
Brett Strong
http://jesusisahoax.blogspot.com/
Common Mary Jo and have the guts to post my response 🙂 …you are an Christian Apologists, right …with the fight of a lion, right …then let the games begin!
Brett Strong
http://jesusisahoax.blogspot.com/
Mary Jo: if not, no problem, you're still cute anyways 🙂 …have a great day Mary Jo …either way, you are still awesome …keep up the good work :-), may your ministry grow by leaps and bounds …later
Thanks Mary Jo for posting my response :-), you are awesome, wonderful and an amazing Christian Apologist–you go girl 🙂
Brett Strong
http://jesusisahoax.blogspot.com/
Hello,to the readers,I have already posted 3 answers to the questions given by Strong about NUMBERS 31 and other things,so you can judge if they are good answers.Read them here:
http://jesusisahoax.blogspot.com/2011/10/kill-all-men-and-take-have-sex-with.html#comments
I am obviously very late to this.
Thank you for your work, especially taking on Islam!